Monday, September 10, 2007

Nc3 Scandy

I noted in a previous post compiling statistics from my Scandy games I complained about how much I hate when it goes 1. e4 d5 2. exd Nf6 3. Nc3 Nxd5 4. Nxd5 Qxd5. In a great post, Pale Morning Dun has provided a very helpful analysis of the main lines and plans in the position, lines which score very well for black. I can't wait to print it out and go over it with Bookup in hand.


Blogger tanch said...

Errrmm.... It should be 1. e4 d5. :)

9/10/2007 06:36:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Good eye happyhippo. Fixed it.

9/10/2007 06:39:00 PM  
Blogger Frisco Del Rosario said...

It's nonsense that you hate it. You're showing as5 lack of understanding there.

In general, the side that wins an even exchange -- pawn for pawn, rook for rook -- is the side whose pieces come forward as a result of the trade.

1. e4 d5 2. ed5 Qd5 favors Black, but 3. Nc3 gets the tempo right back. Eventually, White's d4-pawn will be better than Black's c6- and e6-pawns, and that's the basis for White's slight, enduring advantage.

However, on 1. e4 d5 2. ed5 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nd5 4. Nd5? Qd5, White has simply lost a move.

The same principle is given typically in the Scotch: 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 ed4 4. Nd4 Nd4? where Black has wasted a move.

9/11/2007 03:30:00 AM  
Blogger Frisco Del Rosario said...

You will be wasting time by poring over that analysis. Black is at least equal after 4. Nd5. It's much more valuable to understand why 4. Nd5 is a mistake than it is to look at lines that discuss it.

9/11/2007 04:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aaah! The sadistic little midget inside my heart is smiling again...

9/11/2007 04:53:00 AM  
Blogger takchess said...

off topic. curious. Do you take notes while doing tactical problems?

9/11/2007 06:32:00 AM  
Blogger Zweiblumen said...

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the Nc3 lines were some of the ones that made me swap the 2 ... Nf6 for 2 ... Qxd5. The lines are so balanced and sterile that I could never find any plans.

That said, 3. Nc3 followed by 4. Nxd5 usually made me happy, since that capture does nothing for white aside from bring black's queen into the game.

9/11/2007 09:35:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Frisco: It's nonsense that you hate it. You're showing a lack of understanding there.

What else is new? I understand the reasons it's supposed to be good for black, but in practice I wasn't handling the early queen exposure well and was getting my ass kicked. I understand why Nxd5 is a "mistake", but at my level that isn't that much help. I was struggling figuring out the general plans, best squares for my pieces, where to put that exposed queen when she is attacked (e.g., even with 5. c4?!: where do I put here then? I've been putting her on a5).

It just feels so wrong to have my queen out so early! I often waste many tempi getting her out of trouble, so that meagre benefit doesn't do much (at my level, one tempo in the opening really isn't all that big an advantage: I'm not at the point where I am master of time and initiative, able to exploit opponents' lag in development (unless it is quite stark)).

Above also applies to what Zweiblumen said.

Takchess: I write down which problems are in error. Other than that, no. If I am confused at all about a solution to a problem, such as why alternative moves weren't made I fire up Crafty to make sure I understand all these things.

9/11/2007 11:17:00 AM  
Blogger Frisco Del Rosario said...

The real problem here is that improving players shouldn't be playing positional defenses like the Scandinavian.

The Center Counter is really just another Caro-Kann, and no one ever got better at chess by *defending* with the Caro-Kann.

9/11/2007 02:49:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Frisco: I think you have a good point, but another maxim for we patzers is to not focus too much on the openings. The Scandy is a wonderful way to avoid all the Spanish, Italian, etc.. stuff. And the 2...Nf6 Scandy, which I play, tends to open things up quite a bit into a tactical game (though you are right at the top levels it often transposes to a Caro-Kann: at my level, around 1400 ICC, only about 20% of my opponents lead it down that path: over 40% of the time it goes into the path discussed in this post, which should make me very happy theoretically!).

9/11/2007 03:21:00 PM  
Blogger Robert Pearson said...

BDK--I'm with you on the 2. ...Nf6 Scandy; after 25 years of other defenses, the more I play it, the more I like it, especially against under-2200 opposition. Hardly anybody plays the Caro line, and it's a matter of personal preference but I love getting some open lines for development, guaranteed.

To disagree with frisco, I don't think it's especially "positional" either. And I don't think most Whites like playing against it very much. all points in its favor.

9/11/2007 08:16:00 PM  
Blogger Pale Morning Dun - Errant Knight de la Maza said...

Settle down Frisco. If you like playing an opening then play it, and learn it. I doubt there is any evidence to suggest that people don't improve playing certain openings, like the Caro-Kann as you suggest. In fact, I'm sure of it.

Indeed, studying openings is not a good idea for we low level players, but having a basic repertoire down that gets you out of the opening equal or better only requires a little memorization and pays off in the end by not eating up your clock.

9/11/2007 08:24:00 PM  
Blogger Pale Morning Dun - Errant Knight de la Maza said...

And another thing, the idea not to investigate and understand a line that scores so well for black and is encountered so frequently in one's play isn't a very good one.

9/11/2007 08:49:00 PM  

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