Sunday, November 04, 2007

Panov attack

Tournament game this week: my first use of the Panov attack is here. Extensive annotations, especially at critical move 12. I'm in San Diego at a conference, so I'm light with the blogging right now.


Blogger BlunderProne said...

I don't have too much time these days to provide much depth ( see my last post... something came up takign priority over chess these days) ... but I still have an eye.

Since I play the C-K as black, I thought I'd throw this in. Black's move 6...Nc6 was not the best. I like to play 6...Bb4 and turn it into a Nimzo-Indian transposition. More active piece play and a build up of preassure on the c-file and queen side. Nc6 just allows white to control hte center and rule both of Black's Bishops.

Nice game... way to rule... look at the line with Bb4. If interested send me an email and I can forward my CK bookup file to you.

11/04/2007 07:09:00 PM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

Nice game! As long as you can prevent black from playing e5, with a pawn on e6 he has some trouble to get his pieces at the kingside, so a kingside attack looks more logical to me. But you seemed to be attracted to the queenside where he was stronger.

11/04/2007 08:34:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

Interesting game. I play the Panov attack, but very differently. I play Bg5 early, and I've never played c5. The d4 pawn looks weak, but your opponent never really formulated any serious threats. Great attack on the black squares to finish him off! I'll be honest, I always feel more satisfied with a game if I mate with a knight or a bishop than with a heavier piece.

Hows the conference? Are you presenting anything yourself?

11/04/2007 11:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

After 7. c5, what about 7. ... b6? Unless White exchanges off the c5 pawn, it seems like that Pawn is a target, with an eventual Qa5 bringing very uncomfortable pressure (eg, 8. Be3 bxc5 9. dxc5 Qa5)

Black's 19th: cxb4 would be interesting to consider.

Nicely played...Black never really managed anything throughout.

Re: conference. You've built up enough goodwill so that we'll let you slide for a few days.

11/05/2007 12:51:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

BP: Yeah, I was booked up on that main line Bb4. This whole c5 line I played was specifically for this setup.

Tempo: Good point: I tried to stay flexible with which side to attack on. I think the c5 formation made me want to go queenside blindly following Silman's rule. But you point out a good reason to want to go Kside. Indeed, it almost backfired!

Joe: I only use that c5 push against that specific setup to lock in both bishops. I don't think it's very common. (see also my response to LEP).

The conference is fun, I've just got a little poster tomorrow to present some methods. It's an amazing conference: over 30,000 neuroscientists in one place, amazing energy and good to see old friends.

LEP: Frankly I played that because when I was playing around with my repertoire the night before, Fritz really liked c5. I also vaguely remembered that Collins also gave it ?! in some line. I like the overall idea. But I am really new to this, and still learning the ins and outs. I like it because it won't be expected, there is little written about it, and the overall plan seems sound (though of course such pawn pushes do generate weaknesses). Another reason I like it is because in the QGD as black, I hate it when white plays it so it may help me learn some of the weaknesses induced.

As for what to do with b6, clearly that was the big threat, and as I also mention in the extended annotation before move 12, my d4 pawn was also something I had to keep an eye on.

Fritz says after b6, b4 is good (and if Nxb4 Qxa4 wins for white). Though I frankly haven't thought it through, didn't even think of it in my opening prep!

11/05/2007 01:33:00 AM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

For a kingside attack you need a stable center and a stable queenside. You have to look if c4 fits within that scheme.

In general the CK is difficult to beat since it invites you for a kingside attack and when you start it they punch back in the center.

That's why I liked Fritz suggestion Na4, ruling out all counterplay.

11/05/2007 04:59:00 AM  
Blogger Pale Morning Dun - Errant Knight de la Maza said...

I was kicking around a new reply to the Caro. What I had previously was a silly gambit, that would probably never work in long time controls. I searched chessbase and did an opening report after the exchange and it came up with c4 as the most common reply. Didn't know this was indeed the Panov attack. How did you prep this opening? Do you have a book on it?

I thought one thing was interesting is that black scores horribly if he captures the c4 pawn straight away. That's a move I think a lot of club players would play because they see they can give you an isolated d pawn. I have not studied the line thoroughly at all, not in the slightest, but based on those results I think the isolated d pawn is a deception. Hehe.

11/05/2007 09:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I have been reading your blog nearly every day for about the past six months or is one of my favorites.

I noticed in this posting that you were showing a C-K, Panov game. That's funny...I play the C-K. Maybe I should check it out.

I started to play through the first moves of the game...that's funny, this is very similar to a game I played a few days ago. Cool, I might really learn something here.

Wait a minute!! This is MY GAME!!

Talk about a small world. What are the chances?

Too bad I didn't see my Knight hanging...a breakdown in my thinking process. I'm pretty sure the natural Ne8 would have won it for me.

Anyway, thanks for the game and keep up the great work on your blog.

11/05/2007 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger Loomis said...

PMD, I first saw the Panov in Baburin's book "Winning Pawn Structures" (which is really all about the isolated d-pawn). After reading the first 7 chapters of the book, which all feature winning attacks from isolani positions, I can tell you that this is a strong attacking structure for white. I may like it too much as I never read the second half of the book, which shows what to do on the other side of the isolani.

Baburin's book shows isolani games from many different openings (1. d4, Caro, Sicilian), but all the games are related to each other because they share the same middle game pawn structure.

11/05/2007 02:19:00 PM  
Blogger Pale Morning Dun - Errant Knight de la Maza said...

Many thanks. I will make note of his book and put it on my list.

11/05/2007 03:44:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Tempo: yes, it seems like a quite solid opening for black. A bit quiet for my tastes but a nice "system" opening with lots of similar moves no matter what white plays, is my impression anyway.

PMD: Sam Collins has it in his book 'Attacking repertoire for white.' The day before this game I entered the recommendations into bookup. The c5 variation I played is somewhere, but I'm not sure it's what he recommended it in the position I played it.

Anonymous: that is really funny! It was a tough game, could easily have gone the other way. Thanks for your comment.

11/05/2007 05:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Comments on your game. I think you are defintely improving. Bill

the idea behind 7.c5 is queenside expansion and space - ram those queenside pawns down his throat, not kingside attack

8.Bd3 is OK 8.Bb5 is more thematic. As you mention, it fights for the key e5 square. Also, White will often exchange on c6. Reasons - total conquest of e5. get the advance b4 in without wasting time. Potentially stick Black with a nasty light square bishop in the endgame.

In your variation 9...Nb4 I like 10. Bb1 instead of Bb5

I think 11...a5 is a mistake actually.

At move 12. Black has very little play. He needs to play ...b6 or ...e5 to give his game some life. As ...e5 is virtually impossible Black will turn to ...b6. On the other hand, you have lots of good moves here. You have advantage in space and plans.

Like you mentioned, one idea is to prevent his ideas with 12. Na4. Black would like to react 12...Nd7 to support both ...b6 or ...e5 next. But as that is impossible here, 12. Na4 looks perfectly reasonable. You may know I tend to preach killing the other guys play as a valid plan. This also emphasizes the drawback of 11...a5

Another idea is to anticipate ...b6. For example 12. Rb1 b6 13. b4 and Black must cede you a protected passed pawn with 13... bxc5 14. bxc5 (Black could choose to open the a-file as well by throwing in 13...axb4 14. axb4 first). The plus for Black is that he gives him self some breathing room, but at the price of a long-term asset in the protected passed c-pawn for White. You would also continue to dominate the e5 square, and Black is still passive. ie, you are converting advantages. Black gets some space and activity - you get a protected passer.

I would say your move 12.Nb5 is not ideal but OK. White has a sizable advantage here and this doesn't spoil it.
You mentioned that you wanted to play Bf4 to tickle the queen and lock-down e5. To that end you looked at 12. Ne2. Did you consider 12. g3 in the same vein? I am not saying it is good or bad, just wondering if you looked at it.

14. Ne5 is a nice move. I like you how are combining positional and tactical play.

14...g6 is a serious concession that you coaxed out of him with 14. Ne5. 14...h6 is positionally preferable but has its own downside consequences. Note that your c1 Bishop is actually developed here. It can sacrifice itself on h6 just as well fom c1 as f4. The only drawback to its placement on c1 is that it obstrcuts the Rook on a1. Note that in some isolated pawn positions (like the QGA with a4) White can solve this problem via Ra3-to the Kingside. Not possible in this game but keep that manuever in mind. Also, note that ...e6 and ...g6 (or e3 and g3) does not mix well. The pawn structure h7-g6-f7-e6 is often referred to as the "Swiss cheese formation." As you mentioned, Black has potential color complex problems here. One more positional feature to note. The pawn on ...e6 obstructs Blacks lines of communications. It closes movement along the diagonal c8-h3 and along his 3rd rank. This is not insignificant, and is in fact part of the reason that a Kingside attack from you has some likelihood of success here.

15. Bf4 another good move. Did you see 15... Nh5 16. Nxc6 and wins?

Rather than 19...Rfc8, Black might consider 19...c4 to unbalance the game. He would get interesting compensation in case you grabbed the exchange.

I also prefer 20. bxc5 As Heisman might argue, prefer a stable static advantage over an imbalanced advantage. Keep it simple.

11/06/2007 10:32:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Anonymous Bill: I am in your debt for that gem of a comment, something I will need to read over and over, savor, print out, etc.

I unfortunately just have time to read it quickly this morning as I must be off to the conference, but I will examine in later and comment in more detail.

Incidentally, do you have a blog? Have you written anything? You said some thinks that suggest we should know who you are, and by the quality of your commentary I suspect we would.

11/06/2007 11:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Could you please add my link to your blog. I have added yours to mine.

Getting to 2000


11/06/2007 03:55:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Anon: I'll check it out and if it's something I think I'll read I'll link it on my sidebar. Thanks for the heads up.

11/06/2007 07:50:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Bill: Thanks again for your comments. Here are some specific replies.

1. Thanks for clarifying that queenside attack is a good strategy here.

2. The 12 Rb1 plan is very interesting. I had considered it, but wasn't sure how to respond if b6, as if b4, then axb, and he is attacking my Knight, and if I play axb he gets a free rook. Or am I missing something?

3. I considered g3, but didn't like the idea of weakening squares around my King, and potentially leaving my Knight on f3 hanging if my queen had to move.

4. I'll keep that Ra3 maneuver in mind in these IQP type positions.

5. Stable, static advantage over an imbalanced advantage....interesting way to look at things. I'd never heard that before (other than its corollary: when winning, simplify; when losing, complicate).

Thanks again Bill, a great lesson.

11/09/2007 12:19:00 AM  

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