Tuesday, June 12, 2007

My voice is changing

I think chess puberty has set in.

I am no longer playing like a frightened chipmunk, but more like an overeager teenager desperate for some action. Speculative attacks that crash and burn, opening the positions up like a madman, positional principles be damned (what's a weak square on h6 if your opponent is a queen down?!). It is fun. I am no longer petrified that I will misanalyze a position or miss an obvious tactic. I am playing with the assumption that I am better at tactics and calculation than my opponent, making the position crazy complicated, and seeing what happens. I don't even care that this assumption is often wrong: playing this way will force me to get better at tactics and calculation.

This is what chess is supposed to be about. This is how I will learn when attacks are premature and when they are called for: try out some attacks and see what works, and build up that experience which will lead to the ability to seize the initiative and attack when the position calls for it.

What has changed? I think it is partly reading Chandler's How to beat your dad at chess. It is like a recipe book for developing devastating attacks on the opponent's king. The textual explanations there, coupled with seeing nearly all of the motifs from that book in CTB, has turned a lightbulb on in my head: these little 1-3 move sequences in CTB are part of a larger game, one in which someone took a risk and went in for the kill. Or, if that is not in fact what happened, if in fact the positions from the book emerged from boring positional struggles in which the evaluation was 0.0 for 60 moves, I don't care. I need to learn how to crank open my opponents' defenses like a sardine can and commit regicide.

As part of this new awakening, I am changing my game plans. I am still working on the Circles, but I am going to play 3-6 blitz games a day, analyze them in Fritz, and keep a record of the tactical motifs I am missing, the opening mistakes I am making (including frequency of opening seen as well as win-loss-tie stats). I am sick of long games. I want to loosen up for a while, DK-Transform style, and just go for broke. Yes, blitz games will screw up my thought process for a while. But they will also teach me real-game tactical motifs, opening principles, and give me experience. I started this game 2 years ago and have focused so much on cautious, careful play in slow games that I have missed out on a world of crazy fun chess.

Here is one blitz game from last night. Afterwards I Fritzed it to look for dramatic evaluation fluctuations, looked at my opening book, noted the error I made, and moved on. It took about 5 minutes.

My coach, incidentally, has been telling me almost every time we meet: you are good. You just need to play more, build up experience with chess. Play blitz. While all the books say to play slow games, my coach knows me personally and I'm paying him big bucks to help me. I should listen to him and see where it goes. He has said I need to play more recklessly, like a scholastic player would. Yeehaaa, I'm full of testosterone! I'm not going totally mad: I'm not gonna play the Scandinavian or anything like that, or go for scholar's mate in every game. I'm gonna stick with my openings and follow principles as much as possible. But if it looks like I might have an attack, but I can't calculate it out to N moves to see if it will work, I'm gonna go for it. This will build up that intuition and experience you guys are always talking about.

Tonight I played 3 games. One win, one draw, one loss. Three funs.

Incidentally, if you look at people's ratings at ICC, everyone's standard rating is about 200 points higher than their blitz rating. My blitz rating is about 400 points lower. What will happen if I increase my blitz performance? I take blitz to be an indicator of tactical prowess, opening knowledge, and ability to think and perform under pressure. I need to learn all of those things more than anything right now. Daily education in practical tactical motifs that I miss in real games is one component of my tactical training that I haven't been getting.

We'll see if I like this pace and style.

Post edited by DK-transform. It was only ten words long initially, and he made me pad it.

Kant rules.


Blogger hisbestfriend said...

Right on! No matter whether you are successful or not here, is not the point. It is to extend your vision, let out your wings, fall a little.

Your coach is right. Gain some experience. Play some Blitz. Actually play ALOT of blitz. (books schmooks. I grew up in the Yasser era. We played ALOT of blitz).

Then examine the games (I never had that privilege, they were lost for ever). But the point of blitz, is to try things, to see things. Though today you can do some of the same with fritz. But competition is different.

But you also must play slow chess too. Breath deep, play real chess, every move.

But you know, this is all the same as it ever was. Enjoy the ride.

6/12/2007 01:43:00 AM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

Yeah! Let the fun begin!

6/12/2007 02:01:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

HBF: blah. I'm sick of long games. I'm gonna play blitz for a spell. Long games will be there for me when I'm ready...My hunch is this will help me improve a lot at longer games once I get back into their tortured rhythm. I'm sick of 'em.

Tempo: it is like I have been freed from jail!

6/12/2007 02:15:00 AM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

Yes, I know. Euwe has teached the Dutch a very cautious and dull way of playing. Every move had to be "scientificly" justified. I have grown up in the aftermath of Euwe, and my own games with play based on his books bored me to death.
What a relief when I started with the KG according to Gallagher! I have never had a dull game again. At the cost of only one little pawn, both you and your opponent have an evening with fun! No matter the outcome.

6/12/2007 03:55:00 AM  
Blogger takchess said...

I strongly recommend you reading this book a minimum of 7 times. Kill the King!!!!!!

6/12/2007 10:20:00 AM  
Blogger The retired pawn said...

BDK, loved your game! Personally, I grew up on Lev Alburts chess course. Pattern recognition is the key to chess. Blitz allows you to learn a new opening effectively and will sharpen your tactical vision. I played in a Blitz Grand Prix the other night and had big fun (even if my blog seems to suggest different). I even beat a 1800+ player my first game! Yes, Blitz can be a great time. However, I would caution you that you need to play at least one slow game each day (at least 15 minute clock) or chess get to be frivolous and you will start just given away material for the initiative. This is okay for Blitz because you don't have much time, but in longer games...somebody will find a defense and you're behind for nought. All of this is only my opinion, but it works for me. Please follow your heart. As for "How to beat your dad at chess" book, I have had a copy for over a year and it is a great tool. Yes, reading it often will make those 50 deadly checkmates appear by magic on the board during play! Good luck!

6/12/2007 12:29:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

RP: I'll get back into slow games eventually, and will not give up on them altogether (I'll still play in the 45/45 league). I'm gonna focus on gaining lots of experience with blitz for a few weeks. I don't care if I get worse: it is a lot more fun, and this is just a silly game. I burned out on slow games and need a break. This feels like a transition I need to make in a certain way, that I will eventually emerge from a better, more agressive player (and later I can temper the aggression with diligant application of thought process: it's not like I will permanently scar my brain).

Plus, my coach, an IM, has recommended this to me based on a few months of working with me. That, coupled with the fact that it has ignited a passion for chess, makes me not care what the books and internet gurus say about blitz!

6/12/2007 02:35:00 PM  
Blogger Paige Keiser said...

That's exactly the type of chess I like to play. Agressive and wreckless. :0) It's more exciting.

6/12/2007 04:54:00 PM  
Blogger funkyfantom said...

Listen, blitz is fun but it is NOT chess. It will NOT make you a better chessplayer.

You are violating the law of Dan Heisman. You have to play REAL chess. People playing blitz at sub-expert level are playing hope chess.

If you beat someone who was also playing hope chess, what have you accomplished, except reinforcing bad habits?

Play 30/10.

6/12/2007 05:01:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

funky: (see my previous comment plus:)

This will be an interesting experiment! I think it will help me with tactics and openings in ways that will export to longer games. It won't help me with my thought process (except in time trouble), and will not be 'real' chess. It is pattern-based chess and I'm using it to increase my number of stored patterns.

6/12/2007 05:27:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Paige: right on!

6/12/2007 05:28:00 PM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

It never stops to amaze me how many people want to save your soul from hell when you decide to conduct an experiment:)

6/12/2007 06:12:00 PM  
Blogger Korsmonaut said...

Yeah, I don't see how mindful blitz chess (as BDK is likely to practice) can be harmful.

In my 26 years of traditional Japanese karate, working toward mastery of ONE, very traditional style. I take my training seriously - it's fun, but I don't mess around. Anyhow. We use both slow and fast training. It's essential, you need to go fast in order to "breakdown" so you know what to fix... you need to go slow to perfect technique. Being aware of what you are doing at all times is the key. Fast also trains feel... which is critical. Anyhow, I think this blog is testimate enough to BDK's approach to chess. Playing lots of blitz will likely produce plenty of insights for him to digest... that's a good thing, right?

6/12/2007 07:07:00 PM  
Blogger funkyfantom said...

I'm sorry, either you people are just wrong, or Dan Heisman is wrong.

His arguments are well-reasoned, plus he is a bona-fide chess authority.


I cannot restate the arguments better than Dan, but his article refutes clearly several messages on this thread.

BDK- when you say "...It is pattern-based chess and I'm using it to increase my number of stored patterns...", I know you are sincere, but this just makes no sense. Storing patterns that you completely understand makes sense, but that doesn't happen from blitz.

The benefits come from thinking hard and deep in typical positions.
Of course, you could do that while analyzing a blitz game I suppose, but that is besides the point.

6/12/2007 07:21:00 PM  
Blogger Robert Pearson said...

funkyphantom, my man, I'm sure you mean well but c'mon, "violating the law of Dan Heisman" ??? I know he's a "bona-fide chess authority" but he ain't the Supreme Chess God, either. As those who read my scribblings know I'm a firm believer that each individual must find their own best way to study and improve, and that that way likely includes a good mix of tournament chess, opening study, tactics, and yes, blitz.

Every grandmaster or plain old master I've ever talked to plays some blitz from time to time. Sounds like our man BDK is playing blitz with a purpose, not just shoveling pieces around aimlessly.

I went and read the article you referenced and even Dan-O said fast chess was "not completely worthless." Anyway, I've got nothing against your approach but I think sometimes some blitz is "the pause that refreshes."

Best Regards,


6/12/2007 07:39:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

I'm not even sure it's funky, frankly, as his posts are sort of nutty. I think I'll abstain. Korsmonaut and Wahreit have made good points.

This is just a game. I don't care if I get worse if I am having more fun.

I guess if there is any post that would bring out the Buzzkills, it would be this uncharacteristically exhuberant and happy post. :)

6/12/2007 09:57:00 PM  
Blogger wang said...

Hey, sounds good. I went through the same thing awhile ago. As long as you are willing to deal with some losses from attacks that peter out or were just plain wrong, don't sweat it! '

It can be difficult to integrate everything you've learned into one thought process. Sometimes you have to change up what you're doing before you can pull some things together. I wish you the best of luck.

No go out and sacrifice something!

6/12/2007 10:47:00 PM  
Blogger Justin said...

I just played the same way u were talking about last night at chess club. Very aggressive...too aggressive actually and I lost a couple of games but the positions that I created were fierce, exciting and interesting.
In the future a little more patience along with that aggression will hopefully mean successful attacks and many wins.

Blitz chess is absoluetly fun. if a little meaningless

6/13/2007 02:27:00 AM  
Blogger transformation said...

well then! as usual, my big comment is last, so not get to be read by anyone ever?? embedded in a google citation from the Kant world of prolegema to a certain future blue devil expert? :)

first, while as intelectual as any person, i am first and foremost a person of the heart, a person of feeling. i feel deeply, and i go by what i feel. maybe that is why i hate to edit or spell check...

in any event, i dont know you super well, but i know you like a good neigbhor see you come and go weekly and daily, and know you from across the way quite well.

and what i detect, and what i feel, is that this post concretizes and thus conSecrates this change.

in the landmark forum or the modern variety of est {which is not all good but plenty good, especially for those who have never undergone self examination or exPosed themselves before a group in order to explicate their own feelings, process their stuff, or be with their "feelings"} one of the things the old EST or Erhardt Seminar Training or the Direct Centering promulgated from new york city in the early eighties, one of the things they promised, was that you "would get over your fear of being in front of large groups". true.

so what does this have to do with blitz? as intense as i am, i hate to compete with others. i love to compete with myself. this is probably why i over train and under play. so to play 1200 blitz games in three months forced me, not so much to go wild (i did not) but to get off my fingers and punch it out mightily and daily.

it helps to get over the fear of losing, as my rating was and is never up to my chess knowledge, evidenced by 2142 ct-art currently. yes, i can calculate. and all my boardless computative work...

so the other thing is, and i am fanatical about this, truly a crazed foaming at the mouth raving fiend on this point, i am a great believer in lossing lots of games. i am very proud of my 0.395% ratio of wins to total games. does it hurt to loose ten games or eight games in a row? absolutely. how many 1600's i almost beat as a 1350 bullet player (0/4= start with 0:12 sec and +3 min or 3:04 for 43 moves, avoids "silly mouse race"!

i must defer to mr heiseman on this point, in whatever he deftly and aptly suggests, but i NEVER play blitz without increment. i simply cannot tell you how many LONGGGG blitzzz gamessss i haveeee that are four minutes or more, in long endgames....

but when you win, how good it is.

beating folks 200+ our elo is a delectable treat, and ego biscuit.

im tired after 14 of 16 days at work, and just got off, and must feed the beast now, problems 820 and 821 at CT-Art.... go Aaronian, wow! Elista qualification. so glad for him!

chears to bluedevil, who is really the smartest one of us all, and given wormwood and temposchlucker, is saying an aweful lot.

warmest, david k

6/13/2007 03:01:00 AM  
Blogger transformation said...

i dont want to go crazy on you guys, but, honestly and sincerely, i feel in my heart of hearts after a moments further reflection so happy to see BDK like THIS, since, given his preturnatural overwhelming tendancies towards the Apollonian view, feel very joyfull tonight to see him wax Dionysian (perhaps soon we will see him banging the chess pieces into the board, or screwing them down with a firm fist, like the master as if to say, "THIS will kill you").

I kant help it. warmest, dk

6/13/2007 03:20:00 AM  
Blogger transformation said...

for those of you not familiar with Henry Rollins, he is the perfect embodement of the Dionysian perspective.


cf. his Letter to Ann Coulter, on youTube.com, linked handsomely above. not for underaged.

6/13/2007 03:32:00 AM  
Blogger funkyfantom said...

OK, fine. I resign.

I give up trying to save the "Blue devil" from the hell of blitz.

Blitz your brains out and have a great time.

6/13/2007 09:16:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Wang/Maxwell: yes, you both hit on what I was trying to say. Maxwell, if you haven't read 'How to beat your dad' it will make you even crazier :) (incidentally, Maxwell, will you pick up your own blog again, do you think?).

DK-transform: there's the DK we all know and love. Your greek metaphor is perfect. This is a stage of growth I simply have to go through to be a more complete chess player (I'm talking about the aggressiveness).

After a few days or weeks or months (I have no idea how long it will last) I'll go back to the long games, armed with madness in my eye to bring out when the position needs it, or even if I'm not sure the position needs it. This is a stage most kids go through right when they start playing. Perhaps because I started as an adult, I never went through this stage, but started with slow, cautious, timorous play. No mas!

Tempo: I am obviously doing irrepeparable damage to my chess module, so I will never be able to play well in slow games. In fact, this is probably giving me cancer in addition to rotting my soul.

funky: lol.

6/13/2007 10:17:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Wang/Maxwell: yes, you both hit on what I was trying to say. Maxwell, if you haven't read 'How to beat your dad' it will make you even crazier :) (incidentally, Maxwell, will you pick up your own blog again, do you think?).

DK-transform: there's the DK we all know and love. Your greek metaphor is perfect. This is a stage of growth I simply have to go through to be a more complete chess player (I'm talking about the aggressiveness). It's like some kind of Joseph Cambell transformation I'm going through. After a few days or weeks or months (I have no idea how long it will last) I'll go back to the long games, armed with madness in my eye to bring out when the position needs it, or even if I'm not sure the position needs it.

Tempo: I am obviously doing irrepeparable damage to my chess module, so I will never be able to play well in slow games. In fact, this is probably giving me cancer in addition to rotting my soul.

funky: lol.

6/13/2007 10:18:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Maxwell: nevermind you have been posting fairly regularly. I don't know why I thought you had a layoff, perhaps I was confusing yours with another blog! I'll have to sidebar you next update so I don't get confused again.

6/13/2007 10:30:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...


Welcome to my world! Post your own opinion and watch them roll in!

Seriously, Heisman never intended for people not to use blitz as a learning tool - in fact he encourages it for many of the same reasons you list - learning openings, etc.

Blitzing through attacks is a fun and it does give you a new paradigm for play.

My old coach, IM Predrag Trakjovich, always preached attacking chess. This is a great way to learn some useful lessons, just remember that you will have to eventually go back to playing slow games.

Keep it up and don't listen to anyone else except your coach. WTF do we know, anyway - we're all a bunch of patzers!

6/13/2007 10:38:00 AM  
Blogger Unknown said...


Can you add an RSS feed to our blog so I can add it to my Google Reader?


6/13/2007 10:41:00 AM  
Blogger Schereschevsky said...

BDK, I have the almost same ratings as you on ICC. Have started learning chess 3 years ago. Father with 2 kids so have little time to play and study. You know I also have a coach (IM) with personal lessons. We had 36 lessons until now. He also prescribed me to play blitz. A lot of 2+5 to gain experience. But not in a crazy way game after game after game rematching and rematching same oponent again and again and without stop. I must analyze it with fritz, see missed tactical opportunities, out of opening book moves (because we have an opening repertoire to follow) and try to think what I did wrong on that game. Play the game as I want, aggresively, pasive, defensive, whatever. But carefully thinking and analyzing AFTER the game. Thats the key to use blitz, get experience with post mortem. BUT....., most important thing he recommend me was to play on OTB tournaments. Last year I played more than 40 games on OTB tournaments and went about +200 point on tournaments performance. Hope this helps.

6/13/2007 10:47:00 AM  
Blogger wormwood said...

sounds good. I'll take aggressive and risky over solid and precise every time. fritz absolutely hates most of my CC games, and yet I beat 1800-2000 players with them. we take a week for one single move, so it's not like there wasn't time to 'refute' the moves. it's just very, very hard for a human to do, and we often lose the sight of that when we run games through fritz.

about blitz, well... contrary to my expectations, I've learned a lot about slow chess by playing blitz. it has it's obvious drawbacks, but also a lot to offer. it gives you a good view for a single game as a whole, because you'll be in the endgame just moments after the opening. it's a lot easier to connect the dots, when the cause and effect are not hours apart. and experience, we all know that knowing how a thing works in chess is only maybe 1% of mastering it. what better place to get that last 99% down than masses of blitz?

there is a wrong way to play blitz though, which is to just do it without processing where you went wrong. that will just give you an itching trigger finger and nothing more. it's no different from CTS in that regard. maybe 4-5 games per session, rapidly skimming through every game with an engine right after it sounds good to me. don't mess around.

about heisman, well, the guy has a lot of great things to say. but like everybody else, sometimes he's just full of crap. everybody is. one glaring example is his aversion to lucena & philidor, which any endgame expert will tell you to be fundamental to rook endgames. another is his issue with blitz. so, always have a critical mind, no matter how much respect an authority has. remember that grain of salt.

not that heisman's advice wasn't to the point 9 times out of 10, but they're not laws. always break the rules if you see fit.

I liked a lot what kosmonaut said about the relation of budo training and chess. it's a relation I've been thinking about the last few weeks, and I see a lot of common ground.

6/13/2007 11:14:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

J'adoube: Thanks for the comments. I was thinking about you as the comments started to pile up. It just seems somewhat hubristic for someone to think they know what I need more than my IM coach that I've been meeting with for six months! (Not to mention that this is just a fun break from the norm from me of over 2 years of slow games). And my post wasn't even confrontational!

Wormwood and Shakhmat: I think you are right, and I like Korsmonaut's description of 'mindful' blitz. I think 3 a night is about all I can handle right now, and then about 10 minutes or so each game to go over opening, tactical blunders, and then to figure out the main reason I lost if it wasn't tactical. For those games that I find really interesting, I'll take 'em over to my coach's house. Hopefully I'll get faster at this, so I can go up to 5-6 a night. (Incidentally I am playing 2 12 or slower).

6/13/2007 11:56:00 AM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

What can you learn from blitz games? by Grandpatzer.

6/13/2007 12:12:00 PM  
Blogger sciurus said...

Great post - what can be wrong with having some fun? And if you analyze your games, you even get a mini-lesson out of each game.

It seems, we are both trying to do something similar. My rating in blitz is low (currently 930 at ICC) and I also try to play a couple 2 12ers regularly (with emphasis on try and less on do...) and analyze them afterwards - pretty time consuming even with a modest number of games.

6/13/2007 01:50:00 PM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

I'm sure we can help you to find a purgatory afterwards where you can do penance to prevent your innocent chessmodule from irreversible thus eternal damage. I'm pretty sure that limbo has "circles" as its middlename. . .

6/13/2007 02:29:00 PM  
Blogger BlunderProne said...

Wow 33 comments...I'm so jealous... I wish I had that many hits to my sight in a week ;) Either I am too boring or not as controversial...( or both)

Oh well, i can relate. I've posted about similar paths taken. Going from a scared chipmunk to over teh top crazy risks.

Except, I seemed to hit that "phase" last year. I have "mellowed" since then and don't play with "wild abandon" any more but have a heightened sense of awareness and am ready to pounce when the moment presents itself.

I am going back to fundamentals with my new Trainer. Tactics will always be on the search but now I am looking at the whole game.

6/13/2007 03:56:00 PM  
Blogger HardDaysKnight said...

With apologies to William:

To blitz or not to blitz that is the question,
Whether tis nobler among knights to suffer the torture
Of many hours of a lost position,
Or to make haste against a sea of chess problems,
And by blitzing end them? To blitz, to blitz!
To play!; and by that blitzing to say we end
The heart-ache of long, tedious, lost positions
That our game is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To blitz!,
Perchance to win!: ay, there's the rub;
For in that blitz what effects may come
When we have hurriedly pushed our pieces down the board,
Must give us pause; there's the respect for Heisman
That makes calamity of so short a game.
For who would bear pins and discovered attacks,
The checkmates, and lost games
When he himself might his deliverance take,
With blitz? who would positions study,
To grunt and sweat under 40/45, 40/90, 40/120,
But that the dread of the effects of 2 12,
The undiscove'd country of blitz from whose bourn,
No player returns, puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
then fly to others we know not of.
Thus, conscience does make cowards of us all!
But soft you now!
The fair Cassia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my blitz remember'd.

6/13/2007 04:02:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

Harddaysknight--LMAO: brilliant! Perhaps the best comment I have seen on any post on any blog.

BP: the strange thing is, I didn't say anything particularly controversial. Basically: I'm in an aggressive phase will play a bunch of blitz to stretch these new legs out some.

It has really brought a new level of fun into my games. Like you have, I hope to bring some of the booty back with me to slow game land once I'm done.

6/13/2007 04:42:00 PM  
Blogger transformation said...

bludnerprone: lot of comments indeed.

there is what is called "five degrees of association". i wrote wormwood to his post, and told him that he needed to read and comment here, and that i made a comment flattering to his not insubstantial ego, knowing that would get him here, and that no big post was truly full untill BOTH tempo and he weighed in.

i must not be the only one who told his friends.

strange attractors pull all unassigned elements to their core, given the scope of their energy. BDK is our new bee hive. tempo was before. it fulfills a social need to coalesce, and is indicative of the need within social groups for members to belong and be included. so, yes, jealous.

but sometimes being the grandparent instead of the parent does have advantages, kind of like the good cop bad cop scenario.

lastly, if you observe the sociology of knowledge, you will see one last comment will be writen, which tends to signify the end of a run of many excellent comments, and the members of the group tacitly know that they are done, and the tent moves again.

yes, i reviewed my bullet games quickly with fritz after i played them.

comments above remind me the limit on my bullet play was more the inability to review more in a flood of games, rather than being unable to play more, and the risk being more NOT viewing them instead of viewing them. :) david

6/13/2007 04:43:00 PM  
Blogger Temposchlucker said...

With so much comments you can't afford to play long games anyway.

6/13/2007 05:07:00 PM  
Blogger Blue Devil Knight said...

lol Tempo

DK: It is weird being the new Tempo. I can't handle the pressure!!!

6/13/2007 05:29:00 PM  
Blogger Underpromoted Knight said...

Actually, I've noticed the opposite: I've known people rated 1200-1600 with 1800 blitz ratings online. I'm right there with you, though: my blitz rating is much lower than my real one.

(I don't know about Kant, though...)

6/14/2007 02:29:00 PM  

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